Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Paul's avatar

I agree with your conclusions just about completely. They're perfectly logical, given the premises they're built on.

What I can't put my head around is the ignorance, at least publicly displayed, of just about all political figures regarding the long-term ramifications of the energy predicament. Ditto the vast majority of people. Sure, there is all sorts of talk about diversification, green deals this and that, but not a squeak about the long-term civilization ramifications. They continue building highways and other infrastructure for oil-driven economy, just about nothing that doesn't require fossil fuels.

What gives? Head in the sand? They don't want to cause panic? Total ignorance/stupidity? They got something up their sleeve - some unknown source of energy?

Some people put the end of usable oil at decades from now, I think Art Berman, who is very conservative, mentioned 70 years.

How do you explain the discrepancy between what looks like an imminent emergency and the general complacency?

Jon Dietz's avatar

Nate is right about everything. The collapse is coming regardless. The only question is what rises after — and that depends entirely on something he hasn't touched: whether the humans on the other side of it have undergone a different relationship to themselves.

What do I mean by a different relationship to themselves?

Not an updated self-concept. Not better values or a greener lifestyle. Something more fundamental — a shift in what you take yourself to be at the root.

The Carbon Pulse was built on a particular experience of selfhood: bounded, separate, perpetually insufficient, and therefore perpetually acquiring. That experience of self isn't just a cultural accident. It feels like bedrock. It feels like reality.

But there is something prior to it. A ground of being that isn't scarce, isn't threatened by the losses ahead, and doesn't experience other people or the living world as competition for limited resources.

The civilization that rises after the collapse will be built by human beings. The only question is which human beings — the ones still organized around the defended separate self, or the ones who've discovered what's underneath it.

9 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?